Sex positive relationships, a conversation with Yael Rosenstock

Michelle Lasley 0:02

Hi. This is Michelle Lasley with balanced shared a space where I truly believe we are better together.

From the title of this episode, I hope you can see that the content is adult. So while our subject matter is for mature audience and might not be suitable for some younger ears, you may want to grab your headphones or take a drive in your car. Either way, I hope you enjoy this episode.

My guest today is Yael rosenstock Gonzales. She uses the pronouns she her hers. Yael is the founder of Kaleidoscope Vibrations, LLC. It's a company that is dedicated to supporting and created spaces for individuals to explore and find community in their personal identities. As a queer polyamorous white presenting your weekend Jew. Yao has always been interested in understanding the multi level experiences of individuals. To her company, she facilitates workshops develops curriculum offers identity exploration, coaching, and publishes narratives often left out of mainstream publishing. And upcoming publication is a coffee table book, representing the narratives and images from the photo interview series, the diverse bodies project, of which she is a founding member. She is currently pursuing a doctoral degree at IU Bloomington school of public health and health behavior, to strengthen her research skills and build further connections. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Yael Rosenstock 1:32

Thank you for having me.

Michelle Lasley 1:35

You're welcome. So I always like to get a sense of what brought my guests to the point that they are right now. So when we chatted before you explain that you have been teaching about reproductive health since you were 15 years old, you're not 15 anymore. Now,

Yael Rosenstock 1:56

I was first introduced through an internship that was really an incredible experience, I had the opportunity once a week to get a form of sex education that was truly positive, progressive, inclusive. And I then was able to use that information to go into schools to work with people slightly younger than myself, and facilitate those conversations and let young people know about their rights to reproductive health care.

Michelle Lasley 2:23

Sowhat what would that look like? Like what I mean is, so you go into a school, and you talk with other peers, but maybe they go to a different school than you and let them know about the reproductive rights. So what I'm curious is, what are some common misconceptions?

Yael Rosenstock 2:42

Well, so young people under the age of 18, don't have access to confidential health care or to being able to make their own decisions unless it is an emergency, and they're in emergency room, in which case that there's no parents, you can do so. And the other exception is reproductive health care. And so in New York State, someone of any age can seek out abortions or contraceptives without parental consent. And that I think, is a common misconception that you would need parental consent because it is true in other states. But for New York, if you are 11. And pregnant, then you have access to abortions, as long as you bring someone along to make sure that they can take care of you afterwards.

Michelle Lasley 3:24

Why would it be important that people know what their reproductive rights are young people, and know that they have access to certain types of care.

Yael Rosenstock 3:35

So when we have young folks, we want to make sure that a if they're engaged in any sort of activity that they're doing so in a safe way, and so ignoring the fact that some young people are having sex doesn't actually help them in staying healthy. And in the case that they do end up pregnant and they come from a family that would potentially punish them or, or worse, right there, there's still a lot of there, they could be harmed, they could be sent away, they could be killed, for being pregnant, or beat up. We want to make sure that these kids have access to the option to abort or do anything else that they would like to do without having the fear that their parents might kick them out or harm them. And so this was really important. And I think that's why the state ensured that people of any age have access to these to these health care rights. Thank you for

Michelle Lasley 4:29

sharing that especially. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. So why did you even want to do this to begin with, like start when you were 15 years old teaching about health rights.

Yael Rosenstock 4:42

I think I've always been really interested in rights in general, my family is fairly progressive. And I grew up believing that gay rights were important that immigration rights were important and that women's right to choose is important and I i've been saying folks intentionally because they're some people who are pregnant or not women who birth who are not women and so i think it wasn't that i was searching for this opportunity but someone must have seen something in me as a young person and said i think you should apply for this and when i did i realized it just made sense

Michelle Lasley 5:17

and now you've built your career on it and your path forward on this

Yael Rosenstock 5:21

for sure after that i started doing work well part of it was that i had a negative experience of my own regarding sex and they sought out opportunities to work with people particularly women and understanding long term trauma having experienced multiple events that were traumatic and what that looked like until i realized that i was now having more positive experiences and i wanted to explore that more and so my trajectory went from reproductive rights to sexual trauma and then to sexual pleasure desire prevention of sexual assault and exploration creation of sexual pleasure

Michelle Lasley 6:03

so sexual trauma you know we are at the time of this recording about two years outside of the me to movement and sexual trauma is something that i don't have any statistics readily in my head i want to say one in four women have experienced some type of assault in their lifetime does that resonate is that the right number

Yael Rosenstock 6:27

yeah people go between one and four one and five but they also say that those numbers are under from under the reported

Michelle Lasley 6:33

right okay so yeah so those are just the reported things and it can have really long term damaging effects for future relationships when you have want to have a great relationship with a healthy partner that you've chosen so thank you for doing this work because it's really really really really really important um i'm curious when you work with somebody who has experienced sexual trauma what are some common things that come up that they're having a hard time working through

Yael Rosenstock 7:12

so actually i was just on a coaching call where one of the things that i was celebrating for them was that they've come to the realization that it won't just go away right a lot of us are hoping or expecting that with time it'll no longer be on our minds it'll have vanished and and i do believe that it gets less and less prevalent like it you you stop bleeding with fear you stop that you stop having those things ever present but you never forget and so it never is that it's as if you never happened because it's part of you and i think the acceptance of recognizing that is super important in the healing process once you're at that point because it's unrealistic to think that your life will just look like it did beforehand because it takes years for a lot of people to come to this realization so you know part of your life's gonna look like what it did before just because you're always evolving but that to me is something really important just being able to recognize that so you can move forward with that

Michelle Lasley 8:14

knowledge it's almost like experiencing a death right when you when you experience the death of someone very close to you you can deal with the grave i do believe that time can heal wounds because your heart you know does but that first bit right it feels like it's never ever gonna go away

Yael Rosenstock 8:33

and then you'll you know you'll see them in things and they'll randomly pop into your mind or your your song that that you shared in your example of a death and that's okay and the same thing happens with the trauma you might get a flashback or you might have a song that triggers you back to the memory and all of that is normal and again the pain and the sharpness of it and the fear lessons with time but it's you know you might you might still experience flashbacks decades later

Michelle Lasley 9:02

yeah absolutely so how with a guided therapist or something would obviously be one really great tool so what are some other things people can do to turn to to get help when they've experienced trauma sexual trauma

Yael Rosenstock 9:19

yes i agree with the therapy i think engaging if what you're seeking to do is begin a sexual relationship that feels safe and validating to make communication is key and so once you feel ready expressing to this potential partner that you have experienced trauma and that you may be triggered and if you know what those triggers are being sure to express it as well and then being vocal about what your needs are what makes you feel safe and secure if you're unsure about those answers and there are things like yes no maybe sheets where you can look through and see what you would have wouldn't be willing to do and you can create boundaries around exploration that you're willing to engage in Such things and that if anything else were to happen, you want to have an explicit conversation, just so that you have a sense of control at the beginning. And once you feel more comfortable, you might choose to let things flow as they are with someone that you trust. But I think being able to build a secure space for yourself, for some people, can be very important. For others, there's this desire to take control in a way that is more spontaneous, right, just to go into it to throw yourself in. And it really depends on how people how people respond to their sexual trauma.

Michelle Lasley: 10:36

So you have written a book to help guide people in sex positive relationships, an intro guide to a sex positive view lessons, tales and tips. Can you talk about that for

Yael Rosenstock: 10:51

a little bit? Sure. So this book I made because I realized that I couldn't reach everyone in person, I really love being in person with folks. And this allowed me to reach a broader audience, and especially people who might not feel comfortable showing up to my workshops. And I divided into three parts. The first part is self awareness, getting to know yourself and all your different sexual identities, not just your gender identities or your sexual orientations. But are you a giver, or a taker. Do you like to initiate like those kinds of things that are important in a sexual relationship. The second section is about communication and boundaries. So learning how to set boundaries and how to respect boundaries and how to communicate those things. And the third is exploration involves intimacy with self intimacy with partners, where to get more information. And of course, the you know, the required contraceptive and STI information, just in case folks are unfamiliar with that.

Michelle Lasley: 11:47

Part of what I like to do is to share stories, I believe, the more we can share stories and normalize our experiences, I I'm hoping that we can get a more understanding more compassionate world out of it would be one, one very big goal. You also have a publishing arm, which I would dare say has a similar goal.

Yael Rosenstock: 12:11

Yes, for sure. So even in this in this sexuality book, I have it completely surrounded by my own narrative so that it becomes relatable information. And I also included the narratives of others, so that if I hadn't experienced something, someone else's experience would still be represented. And that I think, was part of the inspiration for the whole company. I made this book in this format. And I realized I wanted that to be true across the board. And so Kaleidoscope vibrations, publishes narratives often not heard, as you said, and so one of the books is a children's book that is bilingual and English and Spanish called Luna Yes, when I see. And it's about a Latin family, and the younger sibling has autism. And she is, I think about 40% verbal. And so it represents this family, and they're the sisters bond, and how they communicate and how they know what each other likes. And it's a really beautiful short tail for children. We have another one coming out about a little girl also bilingual, who experiences anxiety, and what that means for her. We have a poetry book by a an academic who talks about the seven men that she has loved. And it's a collection of poems that are really beautiful and heartfelt me, they've been helping people feel healed in their own experiences of heartbreak and hope. And the effect that people often don't put as much don't give as much credit to the relationships that we have that are outside of marriage or formal structures. And this book allows for that space. So we really are seeking to, to represent as many as many experiences as possible.

Michelle Lasley: 13:50

So we've been chatting for a little bit, and I want to take a little break.

Yael Rosenstock: 13:56

Sounds good

Michelle Lasley: 14:04

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Welcome back. So in your bio, you use a term that as a girl who grew up in Michigan, largely rural Michigan that I hadn't heard before. And that is a new year Rican. What does that mean? Great. So New Year, we

Yael Rosenstock: 16:04

can just means that I am from New York, born and bred, but that my my background is as a Puerto Rican ancestry. So my mother is Puerto Rican and my mother's entire family. And it's just because there's so many of us. It became a term.

Michelle Lasley: 16:19

But I love that. Okay, so you're a New Yorker. And you're Puerto Rican? And you're Jewish.

Yael Rosenstock: 16:25

Yes. Which is not a particularly popular combo.

Michelle Lasley: 16:32

And you're white presenting? Yes. And you're queer. Yep. And you're polyamorous, correct. So I'm taking these off on my fingers, just so I can keep track that seven? Yes. What other identities do you hold?

Yael Rosenstock: 16:53

Well, I'm a sis woman, and that I was born and they said, she's a girl. And I'm a girl. And I am a US citizen. I'm a traveler. I'm a dancer. I'm a creative. I'm a speaker. I'm there's all sorts of different identities. But I think we often tend to identify the ones that are more popular, let's say, or the ones that are potentially marginalized. And so just so folks know which groups that we have in common?

Michelle Lasley: 17:27

Yes, absolutely. who like to see people who we can relate to. And I think that's one thing we're changing. As a society, we're growing more aware of different ways that we can relate to people. And I can't wait to see how this evolves, hopefully for the better as we continue to march on. But identity going back to like the marginalized identities, if you will, that can sometimes have negative effects in our current society. Have you like what would have some of your experience, then.

Yael Rosenstock: 18:10

So, identity, for me has always been really important like, because I grew up in such a diverse family dynamic. And I was incredibly lucky and privileged to grew up in a home that had multiple languages have multiple religions. But that did not create conflict, it was full of love, and acceptance and care and are. So for example, our Jewish holidays tend to have for Jews and eight, Christians and Catholics have different Latin countries. And I think that's the most beautiful thing. And it tells me it proves to me that there's no reason for these identities and differences to require that we be separate or unequal. That it's, it's purely by societal choice by oppressive choice that this is the case. And so, while I do have identities that have been marginalized, for the most part, that wasn't the case in my family. The two identities that are hard for my family to understand fully are my queer identity, and polyamory, and those are also the identities that are most difficult for the outside world. Yeah. polyamory is multiple loves, right, being able to care, love and be with multiple people romantically at once. And for most people, they just don't understand that's possible. They think that means that there's something wrong with you, which is also what I thought until I discovered that there is a community and that there's a word for this, which is why I don't believe people should have to stick to labels, but I really love offering them because for me, it was so important to know that I wasn't alone, and that I was valid and that my mind wasn't messed up.

Michelle Lasley: 19:45

Hmm. Can you take it into that a little bit like. because you said important to know that your mind isn't messed up. So sometimes when we have identities that don't track with what our family wants to be normal, we can feel very much Like there's something wrong with us. Yes. So about how many years ago like I'm curious, like where you were, when you started to realize you thought about love differently?

Yael Rosenstock: 20:13

Yeah, so I'm 29. Now. And I would say I was probably around 19 years old and a loving, monogamous relationship that lasted nearly four years, when I realized that monogamy didn't make sense to me, this person I was with was fantastic, very kind. They were not into promiscuity as the way that they termed it. And so for them, one person was perfect. But in my mind, I was like, I don't understand why being with you would mean I can't be with others. But I didn't really voice this because I knew that that wasn't in line with their thinking. And as I got older, and I went and went through relationships the entire time, I just kept thinking, yes, and I can love you and I can care about you. And I don't know why that precludes me from doing that with others. It just didn't make sense. It started off with sex. But then I realized it wasn't just sex. It was love in general. But I do not like cheating or lying. I'm a very honest person. So I never did anything well with these people. Because I was it was very important to me that everyone feels safe and secure and valued in a relationship. But it took me until my 20s probably 2425 until I met a polyamorous triad, so three people who were together, and I learned the word, I looked it up and I said, Oh my goodness, this is it. This is what I am. It's not that I'm afraid of commitment. It's not that I don't love strongly enough for the right way. It's just that this is not how my mind works.

Michelle Lasley: 21:44

so fascinating. Um, it was many, many years ago, when I've met my first polyamorous exploring people, I'm not sure that they really identified that way. And so that was definitely learning about that was just fascinating. And I've seen a couple different media representations of it, which were okay. And then then there was a really great series. For a short time, I think it was on our local station here. Oregon Public Broadcasting OPB that did some interviews with families that lived a polyamorous lifestyle. Um, and it was just interesting to hear how they did normal life, right? take the kids to school trade off different things. So what are you in community with people who also identify as polyamorous or? Or if you don't mind? My asking, I know relate in a polyamorous relationship right now.

Yael Rosenstock: 22:48

Sure. So I would say it's actually not one of the communities I've thrown myself. And I've meant to go to meetups and what have you, I think, and I've done a bit of reading, and it's funny to see how people also create hierarchies within marginalized spaces. And so polyamory is definitely no exception. And that people have different beliefs around what is right or wrong and how it should be done. For me, it's about honesty and connection and just being clear with everyone. And so I'm currently in because of quarantine, what is looks like a monogamous relationship, right? The same way that like, as someone who's queer when I'm with someone of one gender, it looks like I'm then either lesbian or straight. Right now it looks like I'm monogamous. But that's more to do with making sure that I don't create a further issue with this pandemic that we're in. Yeah. Before this, or at the same time that this relationship started, I was already in another relationship with a couple. So I was the third. And the truth is, for me, that's not actually how I do polyamory. I much prefer to have individual relationships with about two to three people not have a relationship with a couple. And so it's something that I was trying out, but didn't end up being the right dynamic for me.

Michelle Lasley: 24:07

Sure. You're in your 20s still, so that's a great time for exploring things. Um, thank you for sharing that you love differently. Because there's a lot of diversity in our world. And one of the conversations that I keep having that I haven't delved into very much is just this idea of neuro diversity and more each part in the term, we're all snowflakes. And we're all unique, and we're all individual and this idea that there's one narrative that rules the mall is something that I think we're shaking loose. So yes, thank goodness. So you have a project you call the diverse bodies project, when I so so I have always been a curvy gal, right and it's varied in corvinus depending On the stage of life, and so when I hear diverse bodies project, I immediately attribute size as what you're talking about. But I don't think that's what you mean entirely.

Yael Rosenstock: 25:10

So, we mean everything we sought out people from 19. And up, we're still looking for folks in their 70s 80s and 90s, we have up to 50s and 60s, we wanted different body shapes, different colors. We wanted people of different religions, we wanted people of different abilities. And so we we do have all of those things. We just want to say have it to the extent that we would like but we definitely do have all of that represented, which is really exciting. Because we created this to shatter the idea that only somebodies deserve to be represented. We wanted people to be experienced how they want it to be experienced, whether it was sexual, sensual, silly, we want folks to be seen for who they are, and how they want to be seen. And to be able to recognize the beauty in all of us, whatever forms that comes in, however, that feels comfortable to us, as individuals, and we think of it as a body positive project that doesn't require that folks feel a certain way about their bodies, because we don't want to shame people for not loving themselves, or not seeing themselves in a certain way, but also being able to find gratitude and connection to our bodies. So it's a whole mix of different things I find really beautiful and hopeful.

Michelle Lasley: 26:29

Thank you. So I want to ask one more question that I want to ask another question, which I usually ask my guests a little bit early on. So you have another at the time of this recording, which we're recording this in the spring of 2020. At the time of this recording, you are beginning the I think the launching of a project which you call body love vulva edition, what is that?

Yael Rosenstock: 26:57

So it's actually a mini retreat that I'm really excited to host it's very much inspired by Betty dotson's body sex workshop. I heard about her I bought her book and then eventually did her workshop. And it's, it helps folks connect to their bodies connect to one another and find their pleasure and body in many dotson's version. My version really focuses on that community aspect and getting to new ones body and so it's a completely nude space. And folks come in I have different work different activities ready to get people into the mood talking about their experiences of masturbation of body of shaming. What they know about their vulva is that we do what's called the vulva show and tell where everyone gathers around. And we look at one person as well at a time identifying the different pieces urethra, vaginal canal, vaginal opening, clitoral hood. And it ends, my version ends with the the central body massage in which multiple people massage one person at once. And so it's really all this text in texture and touch and deep diving into memories and current understandings. So we can try and shift those into a growing open space. I'm super excited.

Michelle Lasley: 28:21

So we have talked about different things where you want to build communication. Have people create really clear, safe boundaries, that maybe they're exploring with the people that they are around at the same time with the folks that they're around? Because sometimes we don't know what a boundary is until it's been crossed. Yes. Finding pleasure and respect in our bodies, and telling stories of all sorts of different people. What's your vision? If all of these things were to come to fruition right now, what would our world look like in your eyes?

Yael Rosenstock: 29:10

It would be so beautiful. I, when asked about my vision and my mission, in general, My vision is that we live in a world that is full of positive body and sexual experiences where people feel whole, and validated and loved, and where sexual violence no longer exists, nor does shaming. And I think that that's what this is to write and, and that includes all the different identities that we hold, because it's so important that we maintain an understanding of our traditions, our cultures, and the things that bring us together without letting them divide us either. So that we value those beautiful, unique aspects of ourselves while using them together to create and promote positive changes in differences.

Michelle Lasley: 29:56

So how much more work do you think we need to do to be able to get to that vision.

Yael Rosenstock: 30:01

Oh my goodness, so much work. Unfortunately we are. We have spaces that are being built with equity in mind. And we have places that are working towards inclusion a couple of weeks ago, I did a webinar with an Art University that wants for me back to work on inclusivity in the workspace, but there's so much that gets left out, there's so much that we don't realize it's hard to know all the different things without having experienced it yourself or having without having people in your space. And while I come from places that are incredibly heterogeneous, most of our country and a lot of the world live in fairly homogeneous populations that are very similar to one another. And so it becomes more difficult to include those outside in the margins, because we just don't know what those margins look like. So I think that's why storytelling as you do and as I do is so important, because it helps people recognize that their story is different from their own, and just different ways of understanding. And that that will help lead us to this vision. But it will require a lot of work.

Michelle Lasley: 31:05

So for our listeners today, if they are open to and hopefully, if they're listening to my podcast, they are open to this idea of living in a different transformed world where we are more accepting of the different people around us. What's the one thing that you think people could act on right now, to show up with more understanding of different people around?

Yael Rosenstock: 31:33

asking question, tell me more. I think we're super quick to when we hear something that doesn't vibe with our own life experiences. We shut it down. And we say no, no, that's not true, that can't happen. And if someone just told you that's happening to me, then it's happening. It might not be everyone's story, it might not be the majority story, but it's someone's story. And that makes it real. So tell me more about that helped me understand even if you think that the conclusion they've come to is completely wrong. They came to it from some sort of life experience. So asking them to explain it offers an opportunity to get into someone's mind and see where their connections come from. So in that

Michelle Lasley: 32:12

you assume that people are more or less have good intent. And that you would like people to show up with believing that other people's equally have. And I'm using air quotes good intent, meaning that when somebody tells you a story of say trauma, right, and and that they're they're trying to share this to not to you would assume your value would be that you would assume that they're not trying to mislead you. They're not trying to manipulate the conversation or the narrative. They're just trying to tell you their story. Yes,

Yael Rosenstock: 32:52

I i. So that is also that you picked up on a good hole in my mind, which is, I do assume best intentions, I assume people care and are honest. And it is something that is bitten me a little bit and that not everyone is honest, not everyone is does have best intentions. And for some folks, they can't risk anymore, being open to the idea of best intentions. Because they've been hurt too many times. I, I am unwilling to close that version of my mind, I like to go into spaces just assuming what I can because that is how I propel myself forward and assumption that the world is seeking to be better.

Michelle Lasley: 33:34

I like to liken it to some of the values that our country was founded on. We presume innocence, and you have to prove guilt. And so how I'm going to link this very specifically going back to what we're talking about with trauma is if somebody comes to you, and they tell you that a bad thing happened, we're not first going to want to separate from vilifying the person that they might have said did the thing. So looking at the person who's coming to you and saying that they did trauma, we have a tendency to presume guilt on the individual.

Yael Rosenstock: 34:14

Like prove your trauma to me.

Michelle Lasley: 34:15

Yeah, well like like, say, I, I have trauma. And then the other person that we might have said this to No, no, no, there's no possible way that that could have happened to you. There's no possible way that you could have experienced that. So if we flip that and stopped judging that and presuming that they were lying or whatever, right. Tell me more. And being open to the fact that there's actually a story there could pivot our awareness.

Yael Rosenstock: 34:46

Yeah, it creates validation for the storyteller, it makes them feel safer to share. And it allows the person listening to recognize that what might sound outlandish to them, potentially is a real thing. And that real thing therefore needs action. Now During that moment or that person, but there are occurrences happening that we need to be more aware of. So it creates like an internal personal change, that also has a more macro effect.

Michelle Lasley: 35:13

And it can also shift the power dynamics. Okay, that's, we can get dive into that more, and then some other conversation. Because I love question asking, and I love to presume that just the idea that we're going to seek understanding before we start judging. And I think that question, tell me more, as, you know, a great alignment with that. So, communication is one aspect of the work that you do. And so that's a great thing. But now, I would love to know, what is one thing people can do right now to work on. Um, I read this thing recently about a person who was really happy that they became neutral with their body. They no longer were working to love their body, which meant that in their mind, they had to overcome the things that they were hating about their body. And so it was really triggering to think, Oh, I have to love my body. But there's all these places that I don't love. Yes. And so it was really hard to work on that loving. And so they felt a lot of calmness, when they were able to realize they could just be neutral about their body. So what is what? I want to go in that vein, whether or not that is the right one? I'm not sure. But what is one thing people can do if they're feeling any sort of shame around their body, that they can maybe move towards neutrality, so they're moving away from shame?

Yael Rosenstock: 36:49

Yeah, so there's all different ways that people approach somebody. And that's why I also mentioned before that the type of body positive movement that we're doing is not like you have to love every part of your body, because then there is a lot of shame, a tie to not loving yourself. But I do think it can be helpful too, we have this exercise now that we added to the end of the diverse bodies interviews, is asking folks to name some they're grateful for. So it's not focused necessarily on the physical appearance of your body. But what is it that your body allows you to do? So let's say you love to watch the sunset. So you are grateful that your eyes are able to behold the colors of the sunset, or you love to dance as you're grateful for your thighs and your knees? allowing you to make those movements that bring you joy? And so I don't know, that's not quite neutrality, right? That's still a positive view. But it's focusing away from what do I look at when I see myself in the mirror towards my body is more than the aesthetic? Yes.

Michelle Lasley: 37:48

I'm not sure what is the right choice of how we should view our bodies and whatnot. But I definitely am aligned with any type of gratitude practice. And so that's a really beautiful way of, of doing that. Where can people find you?

Yael Rosenstock: 38:02

So because there's so many different things, there's different places, but if you're seeking to follow me as a sex educator, I am Yeah, l the sex geek on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. If you want to find out about the diverse bodies project that said the handles diverse bodies project on Facebook and Instagram. And if you're interested in publishing, it's key vibration, stop publishing on Instagram.

Michelle Lasley: 38:26

And that's short for Kaleidoscope vibrations.

Yael Rosenstock: 38:28

Correct.

Michelle Lasley: 38:29

Awesome. We didn't even talk about that. So many things. So I really want to honor your time and we've blown past whatever boundaries were put on time today. So thank you so much for joining us. I'm so glad that we could talk about sex.

Yael Rosenstock: 38:45

Thank you, Michelle. This is a lot of fun.

Michelle Lasley: 38:52

Balance shared is produced and edited by me Michelle Lasley, the instrumental music grass by Silent Partner is from the YouTube Audio Library. If you've enjoyed today's episode, leave a review, especially on Apple podcasts. If you've loved the messages of CO creating a better future and digging into ourselves, maybe you'd like to become a supporter. Email Hello at Michelle lasley.com to get your sponsorship guide. Thank you for listening to this podcast. This is Michelle Lasley with bounce shared a space where I truly believe we are better together.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai